Dissecting to find any thread of truth

So, there is this chick on the internet that I have mentioned before, named Sue, who is totally against WLS and she has managed on more than one occasion to freak me out.  The problem is that people read her and she starts all these questions in their minds and "OMG am I doing the right thing?  Am I screwing myself up totally with this surgery?"

So today, I elected to do a little searching to see what I could come up with about some of the things she says.  I'm not finished yet, but I thought I'd share with you what I found.  

One of the people she quoted, said this:

"By doing this surgery, you're creating a medical disease in the body. Before you expose someone to that risk, you have to be absolutely sure that you are treating an illness which is equal to or greater than the one you are creating."
(Dr Edward Livingston, bariatric surgeon in Self Magazine, 4-2001)

The first thing that pops out at me with this article is that it was written in 2001.  Seven years ago.  But it looks credible enough as she has attached a doctor's name to it, so I Googled him and found this article. Interestingly enough, there is no mention in this article of the above quote.  In fact, Dr. Livingston says these things:

"He's performed gastric bypass for the past 13 years, with extremely positive results for most patients, he says. In fact, when he first started performing the surgery, he was surprised at what he calls the "stunning" results. Patients were extremely positive and even "euphoric" about the results, he says."

"Reduction in nutrient absorption following a Roux-en-Y gastric bypass is fairly minimal. The major problem comes from iron and vitamin B12. These are poorly absorbed and need to be supplemented. Calcium absorption is reduced and needs supplementation. A primary care physician should conduct annual checks of basic nutritional measures."  Funny.  Nothing there about the disease we are creating by having this surgery....we already know we have to take supplements.

One in 200 die? This sounds like a huge number for elective surgery. Is this a misprint? -- Kyle Robbins, Rome, N.Y.

No -- the mortality rate for bariatric operations ranges from 0.2 to 1.8 percent. This relates to the patient's risk for complications. Surgery on obese individuals is inherently high-risk. Many of the complications that cause postoperative death are not related specifically to bariatric surgery; rather, they are a function of obesity. For example, one of the most common causes of postoperative death is pulmonary embolus -- blood clot in the lung. These can occur in obese patients from any type of surgery they have.

The risks vary with the patient. Very large older men have a much higher risk of complications than relatively healthy, smaller women.

Although 1 in 200 or 0.5 percent seems high, death rates of 5 percent following heart operations are not unusual. 

So what he is saying is that all surgeries come with risks. I think we all know that.

Does he caution about the risks associated with surgery?  Absolutely.  Blood clots,  hernias and dumping.  I knew all of that. 

Okay, so where did Sue get her quote?  As I was so intrigued, I Googled the beginning of the quote.  Google came up with four sites, three of which led me directly back to Sue and one of her sites.  The fourth site led me here, which I can only assume is maybe part of the article for Self Magazine maybe.  The quote from the doc is listed here amongst many, some good, some bad.  Seems Sue was a little picky over which quote she used to scare people.  

I also did some checking on that WLS uncensored website and it seems to currently only have one apparent member.  In going back to previous years, it seems the board started out as a regular run of the mill WLS board, with surgery hopefuls waiting for approval. However, now the only posts seem to be from a "Womyn2", who only posted occasionally early on, and often the posts were the doom and gloom I am accustomed to coming from Sue.  Now, the really interesting thing is that looking at some of the posts by Womyn2 (which the first letter is also the first letter of Sue's last name), the posts, the links, it all has Sue's name written all over it. 

I hit the "Pictures" section and looked at the photos for Womyn2 and though there are no personal photos, there is a picture of a book called "I Want to Live" by Dani Hart.  Google that and find this, where it says at the end of the article:

Article by SueW, based on extensive interviews (and a long friendship) with Dani Hart.

So basically, all Google hits on that quote by Dr. Livingston go back to Sue.  But this article brings me to another issue.  On Sue's recent blog entry, she says this:

"Secondly, the RNY is irreversible and if you carefully research you will find this to be true. The only procedure they can do with a "gastric bypass gone bad" (as medical providers call it) is to reconnect the small bowel and arrange the organs in a manner similar to the VBG or stomach stapling only. It's kind of a no brainer that you cannot remove 300 staples from a stomach which has been resectioned into 2 pieces."

But in the article where she is linked to Dani Hart, she says this:

The surgeon who did Dani’s takedown has done 11 reversals and is a skilled surgeon. He said that 2 hours of the 7 hour takedown procedure, were spent removing 18 months of adhesions from her stapled stomach.

Granted, Sue stated about the "only procedure they can do..." but you know what, she managed again to instill that fear factor in people by starting her paragraph with "the rny is irreversible". 

She also says this:

Things like "Leaky gut" causing auto immune disorder, bowel obstructions and ulcers in the small bowel due from the leakage of stomach acid (the small bowel does not have a protective covering against acid from the stomach) and those vitamins like calcium which cannot be successfully supplemented resulting in maladies such as osteoporosis etc.

I'm highlighting that last bit because I picked that to see what I could find out and I found out this:


Nutritional deficiencies can arise, particularly in patients who have a gastric bypass or BPD/DS, which causes food to skip the duodenum (the section of the small intestine where most iron and calcium are absorbed). Left uncorrected, this can lead to anemia or osteoporosis, among other conditions. Patients with a biliopancreatic diversion, which by design dramatically reduces nutrient absorption, have to take even greater care to avoid nutritional deficiencies. The good news is these problems can be avoided by eating the right foods in small amounts, taking regular vitamin and mineral supplements, and getting regular medical checkups.

Again, I knew that.  But maybe dear Sue really meant to say "If calcium cannot be successfully supplemented, it could result in osteoporosis."  That would have made sense, and even if that is really what she meant, she put enough of a spin on the information to induce fear.  She makes it sound as if calcium simply cannot be successfully supplemented.

Now, let's talk about this:

"People want to believe the dream that a surgery can change a fat person into a slim one. However, any surgeon will tell you that the RNY is for making very fat people, somewhat less fat because after the first or second year, most patients experience a rebound gain of 50 percent or more of what they originally lost. Keep in mind that the medical profession considers even a small weight loss as something which will lower health risks."

Yes, you can regain weight and I have talked to many post-ops who have.  Those same post-ops, are also honest enough to tell me that they reverted back to their old way of eating....the way of eating that made them fat in the first place.  And what exactly are the stats on "most patients"?  Most patients she has talked to?  Most patients in the world?  In this country?  Again, where is she getting her information?

The real problem with people like Sue is she plays on people's emotions.  Pre-ops who have just gotten surgery dates or people who are finally allowing themselves to consider the surgery are looking for the pros and the cons, and yes, this surgery has both.  But you can easily find Sue and her opinions all over the web; she makes herself easy to find.  Her reason for that?  I have no idea.  Maybe it is because Dani is her friend and she had an unsuccessful RNY surgery, so maybe she feels it is her duty to warn others and I totally agree that people should have access to the good and the bad.  But she has turned the whole thing into one big horror film and that is simply not the case for many, many people.

The moral of my post?  Question everything.  Do not take one person's words, whether the words be good or bad and decide they are true without trying to find a basis for what is being said.  There are a lot of people out there on the web who would like you to feel the same way they do, but you know what?  We're all individuals and my vote is that we get to feel exactly the way we want to feel; the way that is right for each person.